THE VIDEO IS HERE!
So where exactly is the problem? Seeing as how "female" AND "male" were both used...
If you're confused as to where the controversy is originating from, I refer you to this post which also refers you to another blog where easily offended people were... offended.
I looked at the video, but after of course hearing about the "controversy".
ReplyDeleteI honestly would not have noticed the use of the term female if I was not looking for it. But then again, I have never really had an issue with the term "female". All the speakers used terms as if they were interchangeable, which in common speech, they kind of are.
This was a fairly casual discussion and not a more formal affair.
To be honest, I would have noticed the term "girl" more than female. That is the word that usually sets off my radar. But the speaker who used it several times partnered it with "guys", so I would have not been bothered by it. When a speaker matches "girl" with "man" and they are not over 70 years old, then I will point it out to them why need to perhaps try using "woman" in the future ;)
I am amazed at how different this is compared to the discussion mentioned on blaghag. It's almost hard to believe that the writers attended the same event. Jen, Sharon, and Lyz need to issue a formal apology. And soon.
ReplyDeleteCalculon, on watching the video again, I have a guess as to where the guy who kept saying "girl" was coming from. When I was an educator, I referred to all of my students as "girls" or "guys." This was a mental trick to remind myself who they were. To sum it up quickly, I could have sex with women, but never girls. Even though some of my students were college age, and women, to me they were still "girls."
ReplyDeleteI do not know if this is where the panelist was coming from, but seeing that he was speaking of students, it is a reasonable guess.
I just put up a post detailing minute by minute the video compared to Sharon's reporting.
ReplyDeleteThe controversy between "female" & "women" is not only facile, but exclusionist.
ReplyDelete"Women" restricts itself to solely human female adults, but excludes female children & infants.
"Female" is far more inclusive than "women".
Those who suggest that we substitute "women" for "female" are guilty of ageism, amongst other sins against the English Language.
To the fainting couch!
JesusFetusFajitaFishsticks:
ReplyDeleteWell, all is not lost. I now have your site bookmarked for future reading. Unfortunately, I might not have found you had you not responded on Pharyngula.
Pursuant to that posting, I note that within four posts you were called a "fucking idiot." You posted your impressions of what happened, you were there, you were on the panel, and because you disagree with the PZ Horde, you are a "fucking idiot."
Frankly, I'm gobsmacked by that kind of behavior. I stopped posting years ago on that site specifically because one cannot state an opinion different from the majority and not get ripped to shreds and called some of the filthiest names I've read.
This kind of group-think crap is noted and exploited by the godbots. Because godbots live for that type of internecine conflict (note the tens of thousands of variations of xianity alone) they very easily recognize it in others. And I find it hard to disagree when a godbot brings up the group-think crap that too dang many atheists engage in.
I appreciate what you wrote on Pharyngula and regret you were treated so poorly. I know you can take it and certainly don't need any apologies, I just truly do regret that someone telling their version of the event can be so mistreated by supposedly enlightened individuals.
It's very disappointing and sad.
On a lighter note, I love your "Offended? The 1970s called and wants your misandry back" image. It's funny, and a good conversation starter.
Keep posting, we need strong and independent voices.
Strakh
For what it is worth, I agree with the Anonymous writer immediately above on nearly every count.
ReplyDeleteSome of the most reactive and unthinking PZBots claim to be female.
That their ONLY response, even on a first reply to a poster who has gone out of their way to be civil is an ad hominem stuffed to the gills with juvenile cursing, randomly selected from their limited store of 4 letter words.
Even these thoughtless thugs have their own gaggle of acolytes: self-selected mind-slaves who slavishly support them seemingly without conscious comprehension.
Take a look at the way Calculon was treated, for example.
Her posts were consistently calm & reasoned, but two female PZ Bots immediately went for the throat, offering only logical fallacies (where they were coherent), and always uncalled-for vituperation of a juvenile or even infantile nature.
You received the end of this mindless thuggery as well.
If PZ had a "plonk" list, these two would be on it in a trice, followed by their zombie horde!
It is the "tribal" nature of humans poking it's very ugly head out of what used to be a pretty wise arena.
Ohi. Just wanted to say that I really appreciated that you bothered to comment on Pharyngula. It saddens me that you were responded to with nothing but being insulted a couple times and otherwise largely ignored by all the people that were too busy "listening" to listen to you. :/
ReplyDeleteThanks guys. I was fully prepared for the inevitable shitstorm. However, I did think (though in hindsight it was naive) my input would be worth a little bit seeing as how I was there and on the very panel in question. I had to stop reading the comments over there because keeping up with all 9,000 is damn near impossible and I'd read them and get pissed and just had to keep reminding myself that if I were to respond there would just be 9,000 more follow-up comments that would send me back into a rage... circular rage heh. So I quit after my original post there. I just wanted to put my perspective out there, in a sort of take it or leave it way. I'm really annoyed by everyone presenting the panel incorrectly in their "arguments." Recently people can't seem to grasp that the sole purpose of it was NOT to discuss how to attract more women to our movement.
ReplyDeleteI've read some commenters that said I was fearful of speaking because I didn't have a lot to contribute to the actual topic, which was single women being bombarded by flirtation upon joining a new group (I was already married and my husband was with me when we joined a group)... if people would listen they'd hear me ask for the single women's input, but as soon as I did we got derailed by the woman who was offended by the term "female" which is ironic because everyone is bitching about females being "silenced" when it was she that silenced them on the topic at hand.
Also... "otherwise largely ignored by all the people that were too busy "listening" to listen to you." ROFL... seriously.
(Sorry this was so rambly and possibly incoherent... I'm fucking tired man. lol)
Oh, I think your post was worth it. It may be hard to notice over the incessant bleating of PZ's sheep, but I'm sure it was noticed by a number of lurkers. You got your point across, and many more people now know that there's another side to this story.
ReplyDelete@Calculon, kudos to you for battling with those kids for so long. I didn't have the strength for it myself. After I posted, I closed the page.
What happened to the video?
ReplyDeleteI've reposted the video. Let's see how long it stays up.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgS8HzfaR3Q